Aces Full of Links

I didn't know your mom grew up in FR.

I meant to ask Bob where this was--thanks for clarifying.

On the news just now, it was said that the club was never inspected by the fire dept. because the owners classified it as a residence and never applied for any of the permits they needed to operate a social club (like a liquor license, for example). It's a pity that this was done. An inspection might have saved lives.

I understand they were just getting ready for a festival, too. How awful.

The flint is where my dad grew up also. Near the Boy's Club (not that that will probably help you) and the Italien Bakeries (Marzzilli's and Marcucci's?). Ah just checked the map. the fire was just down the street from where Buzzy's was.

WBUR just reported that there were only two exit doors, and one had to be opened from the outside. Also, there weren't any sprinklers on the first floor. Definitely not code! Below is a small bit of a good article from the Boston Globe (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/06/16/fall_river_hall_uninspected/):

By state law, the meeting hall should have been classified as a public space by city building inspectors, which would have enabled fire inspectors to recommend appropriate safety measures, fire and city officials said.

At a minimum, the meeting hall would be required to have swing-out doors, said fire officials. It may also have been required to install push bars on the doors for easy opening. But inspections never took place.

Oh, Buzzy's! You've never had a haircut as good as one Buzzy gave you. That man knew hair.

Patti ... I'm sorry, but that report was WRONG and the misconception that this was some kind of "SOCIAL CLUB" is just completely insulting.

These were women coming together to prepare for a Portuguese feast and light candles for the Holy Spirit. This is a very important religious tradition and one that happens in livingrooms across the Commonwealth. The media is trying to turn this into some kind of speak-easy or something and that's not it at all.

They didn't need a license or any permits ... they weren't drinking liquor and the reporting of this and the lack of ethnic sensitivity on this issue is EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE. It was a tragic accident -- old women lighting candles while praying. Not a business operation trying to get around the rules.

The term "social club" is misleading. When I first heard it I imagined a bar or some other place of business which needs to be licenced. This was something entirely different. Not a business, just a building where people meet.

The way this was reported led a lot of people, I think, to get the wrong idea.

Social club can mean many things. For example, the article I posted (see the URL above) said they had applied for a permit for a kitchen, which I assume was used to prepare foods for feasts like the one they were preparing for. It's easier to prepare the food on-site than to ask people to cook food at home and transport it.

I didn't get the impression that a "social club" is some sort of code term for "booze hall." If people got that impression, well, maybe their only concept of being social is to have a drink, and that's too bad. I think most people will understand what a social club is.

And before everyone gets more upset over the term "social club," note that in the aritlce I posted from the Boston Globe, Manuel Costa, the acting president of Recreation Association Nossa Senhora Da Luz Inc. (the owners of the hall), himself refers to the place as a social club, as does Coucilman Joseph Camara:

The group's acting president, Manuel Costa , said several Portuguese social clubs use the meeting hall. He said he was not aware of the need to report the establishment to city building inspectors, and that it had operated for two decades without incident. ``We comply with the codes," he said.

[...]

Camara estimated there were ``a few dozen, maybe 30 to 40 social clubs throughout the city."

----

Here's the URL again for your convenience:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/06/16/fall_river_hall_uninspected/

Whatever. It's still wrong. The Boston Globe got this completely WRONG. What a "club" means to a Portuguese person and what it means to a Globe reporter are two different things.

This is a social society. They help the poor. They feed the homeless. They've been a part of the community for more that 100 years ... collecting money to bury the dead who couldn't afford funerals.

What you're not getting from the newspaper online is CONTEXT. No url for that.

Officials are going to have to find some way to make sure that public gathering places around the city (and state) are suitably up to code, while being sensitive to traditions that have been practiced here for many generations.

Clearly, it's in everyone's best interests to comply with codes, and/or make sure there aren't loopholes in the system that are putting people at risk.

It's not at all clear to me that the law distinguishes this from a residence. I'm getting the sense that this is a gray area. The kitchen "application" was a building permit, and specified the structure as "residential."

So Keri are you saying that similar clubs shouldn't be liscenced. Perhaps if an inspector had taken a look at the building there'd be 4 fewer dead people today. Any place where people gather that's not a home should be inspected. period. I didn't get any of the negative context that you seem to have from the globe article. Perhaps you overreacted a bit? Take a look at the picture that goes with the article. Clearly the place was some kind of assembly hall. There are a bunch of folding chairs all facing the same way.

James, that's precisely the point. There are laws in place to ensure the safety of all people.

These laws are in place because of horrendous fires like the Coconut Grove fire where people stacked up at the doors and died. This is why code now requires doors to open out, rather than in, and also why if you have a revolving door, you must have a door or doors to the side that open out (not sure if the requirement is for two or one).

Keri, here's another aritcle for you:

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/9374691/detail.html

"This is the type of religious social club found in many of our neighborhoods around the state," [Fire Marshall] Coan said, adding that similar fires could break out anywhere.

He called it a "recipe for tragedy and disaster."

[Fall River Mayor] Lambert said the tragedy was a tremendous loss for the 100-year-old Holy Ghost Association and the city's Portuguese community, but fire officials said it illustrates how important it is for communities to monitor activities at such associations around the state and educate the public about fire safety.

Nobody is saying Portugese people are bad, that religion is bad, or that social clubs are bad.

What is bad is not taking the time to properly license your facility to ensure the safety of your members. It does not appear there were ajy sprinklers on the first floor where the activities took place. It is incumbent on the owner to investigate which permits he or she needs, not for the city or state to happen on by, see the place, go in, investigate, and then tell them what to do.

There is no way that I can explain this to you that you would understand by posting on a blog.

For five centuries, Portuguese people have devoted rooms to celebrate the Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost and Fatima. Old women come into the rooms and pray the rosary. The kitchen is used to make homemade soup to feed "those without" ... and that's it. It's not a meeting hall ... it's not a bar ... it's just a room where people pray the rosary. It's been there for 100 years. This particular Society started to collect money from the community to provide funerals for the poor who couldn't bury their dead.

I don't have to take a look at the picture that goes with the article, because I was at the scene yesterday and I know exactly what it looks like. One of the women who died was one of my listeners. I don't have to read any article to understand the context of the situation, because I live the context. My grandmother had a room of devotion to Fatima in Cambridge, MA for decades. She also started several societies. Any of the women who died in that fire could have been my grandmother.

This was a tragic accident. But an accident that could have happened in any neighborhood in the Commonwealth. You're not going to be able to license old ladies dedicating rooms/shrines to the Holy Spirit, nor would you be able to license those Buddists who have shrines in their homes or people who put candles on birthday cakes.

It's a matter of CONTEXT.

Bob Kerr was the ONLY ONE who actually got it RIGHT today:

http://www.projo.com/news/bobkerr/projo_20060616_frico16.1b47b20.html

Gahh! I just wrote a long response and it wouldn't go through the spam filter so I'm going to break it into smaller responses to see if I can find the problem here goes:

I was going to repond with a bit of a diatribe but decided not to waste my time.

My point is that if your are operating any kind of facility where you routinely have large numbers of people, it is in your and everyone elses interest to meet whatever codes are necessary.

OK I give up I can't get what I wrote through the spam filter and I really don't want to spend any more time trying. I will try and get my last paragraph through though so here goes.

To be honest I probably wouldn't have said anything from the beginning if you had been marginally respectful in disagreeing instead of jumping down Patti's throat. You came across as, no you're wrong and you can never understand so I'm not going to try to explain it. That's fine for talk radio but in real life it would be nice to hear rational arguments.

Bob, some people who want to be offended will be offended. As you no doubt know from living with me, I can be that way sometimes. (Go ahead and ask me sometime how much I like seeing Italians portreyed on TV and in advertising as eating pasta all the time with our fat Mamas. And yes, it's true. All of us have connections in the Cosa Nostra.)

But even I wouldn't have made the connection that operating an establishment without the proper licensing, sprinkler systems, exits, etc. was a slight agains members of my ethnic group. That's just silly.

If what Keri sees in all these articles is that her community has been slighted, logical arguments--like trying to explain the necessity of following laws to protect people--aren't going to change her mind. Don't waste your time.

As my grandfather would say, if he were still alive, "He who washes the face of an ass wastes the time, the soap, and the effort." I wish I could say it in Italian, as he would have, but I don't know how to spell in the Aqua Viva dialect.

Just so nobody's offended, that's ass as in donkey.

Boy Scouts are allowed to meet at a leader's house and Girl Scouts aren't, and I've been wondering why. Maybe this is why. If Girl Scouts are meeting in a public place, then the place that they're meeting is more likely to follow building safety codes. We're also supposed to review the exit strategy in the event of a fire for every location we meet. (Of course that doesn't explain why Boy Scouts don't meet in public places, just why Girl Scouts do.)

What happened is terribly sad. Two children in one of the preschool classes at my mother's school lost family members.

I am frequently frustrated by all the health and safety rules I believe I "know" that aren't followed universally; it does seem to lead to needless pain and suffering. But what seems simple and obvious isn't always so, and that is, in part, why so many people die of diseases we can easily cure or prevent.

Listen, folks - I meant this post to simply express my sympathy and sorrow about what happened in this neighborhood that is not only nearby, but that so many of us have some sort of connection to.

And I respect and recognize that there probably is a discussion to be had surrounding circumstances, prevention, laws, culture, and such. But I don't think it's time to have that discussion when the fire is probably still burning.

So, I'm going to close comments on this thread and ask people to focus their thoughts on the people who are deeply in mourning -- our friends and neighbors. And to consider the neighborhood that has, for now, lost the aid and comfort of this instituiton.

I expect you all understand my feelings.